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	<title>Comments on: Punishment? Another Politician Doesn&#8217;t Get It</title>
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	<description>A blog for and about parents who have placed a child for adoption.</description>
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		<title>By: Chromesthesia</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1684</link>
		<dc:creator>Chromesthesia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 00:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1684</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t buy that sex= a mistake or having it outside of marriage equals a moral issue, but if he&#039;s speaking to a mostly conservative crowd, as the person a few posts above me said, he&#039;s trying to speak in a way they understand.&lt;br /&gt;
But, babies are not punishments or mistakes though, but awesome miracles.&lt;br /&gt;
Still, despite that poor choice of words I can&#039;t help but support him over the other candidates.&lt;br /&gt;
I just wish conservative types would come up with a better solution than adoption or abstinence ONLY with nothing about birth control.&lt;br /&gt;
It&#039;s such a complicated issue. Especially since people are designed to have sex. Villifying it isn&#039;t a good solution at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t buy that sex= a mistake or having it outside of marriage equals a moral issue, but if he&#8217;s speaking to a mostly conservative crowd, as the person a few posts above me said, he&#8217;s trying to speak in a way they understand.<br />
But, babies are not punishments or mistakes though, but awesome miracles.<br />
Still, despite that poor choice of words I can&#8217;t help but support him over the other candidates.<br />
I just wish conservative types would come up with a better solution than adoption or abstinence ONLY with nothing about birth control.<br />
It&#8217;s such a complicated issue. Especially since people are designed to have sex. Villifying it isn&#8217;t a good solution at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1681</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:02:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1681</guid>
		<description>Oh absolutely, it&#039;s a horrid soundbite. It&#039;s terribly ineffective... in fact I personally think it&#039;s potentially harmful. Because while I don&#039;t believe for a single second that any piece of it came across the way BARACK meant it, I can imagine single expectant mothers hearing that and just hearing judgment. I would have, while pregnant.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So even though I don&#039;t think he meant to judge, and even though I don&#039;t think he meant to make babies sound like nothing more than dead weight.... his words could still have that EFFECT on some women. Which is really yucky.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I hate the whole &quot;pregnancy, STDs, abortion blah blah blah&quot; debates in politics, because invariably not one single candidate has any CLUE about single motherhood, unwed pregnancy stigma, or adoption. The pro-lifers scream for outlawing abortion and trot out adoption as near cure-all; the pro-choicers, in an attempt to appease potential conservative cross-over voters and independents, disagree about outlawing abortion but go on to agree with the conservatives that adoption is a lovely answer to all of it. How bipartisan! How lovely! Look we CAN be unified on this issue! (Barf.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It all makes me want to scream. &lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh absolutely, it&#8217;s a horrid soundbite. It&#8217;s terribly ineffective&#8230; in fact I personally think it&#8217;s potentially harmful. Because while I don&#8217;t believe for a single second that any piece of it came across the way BARACK meant it, I can imagine single expectant mothers hearing that and just hearing judgment. I would have, while pregnant.</p>
<p>So even though I don&#8217;t think he meant to judge, and even though I don&#8217;t think he meant to make babies sound like nothing more than dead weight&#8230;. his words could still have that EFFECT on some women. Which is really yucky.</p>
<p>I hate the whole &#8220;pregnancy, STDs, abortion blah blah blah&#8221; debates in politics, because invariably not one single candidate has any CLUE about single motherhood, unwed pregnancy stigma, or adoption. The pro-lifers scream for outlawing abortion and trot out adoption as near cure-all; the pro-choicers, in an attempt to appease potential conservative cross-over voters and independents, disagree about outlawing abortion but go on to agree with the conservatives that adoption is a lovely answer to all of it. How bipartisan! How lovely! Look we CAN be unified on this issue! (Barf.)</p>
<p>It all makes me want to scream. </p>
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		<title>By: Jenna Hatfield</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1680</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenna Hatfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 14:21:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1680</guid>
		<description>Hmm. Okay. I get what you&#039;re saying and &lt;em&gt;can&lt;/em&gt; view it from that angle. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As with anything we say, if it can be misunderstood like this, doesn&#039;t that negate its effectiveness? Shouldn&#039;t he have been more clear? I&#039;m sure I&#039;m not the only one on the planet who felt ostracized by such a comment. Just saying. It&#039;s another example of how little thought is put into how unplanned pregnancy is addressed by politicians and the media. Then again, if you haven&#039;t experienced it, you either have no CLUE how it feels to be judged or portrayed in such a manner and may not be careful with your words OR you just don&#039;t care. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But thanks for shedding some light on it, commenters. I feel a little better now that we&#039;ve discussed it but know that there are others out there who will either feel like I do OR think, &quot;Yeah! Those skeezy single moms!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. Okay. I get what you&#8217;re saying and <em>can</em> view it from that angle. </p>
<p>But&#8230;</p>
<p>As with anything we say, if it can be misunderstood like this, doesn&#8217;t that negate its effectiveness? Shouldn&#8217;t he have been more clear? I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;m not the only one on the planet who felt ostracized by such a comment. Just saying. It&#8217;s another example of how little thought is put into how unplanned pregnancy is addressed by politicians and the media. Then again, if you haven&#8217;t experienced it, you either have no CLUE how it feels to be judged or portrayed in such a manner and may not be careful with your words OR you just don&#8217;t care. </p>
<p>But thanks for shedding some light on it, commenters. I feel a little better now that we&#8217;ve discussed it but know that there are others out there who will either feel like I do OR think, &#8220;Yeah! Those skeezy single moms!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1679</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 03:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1679</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re reading it differently than me, Jenna. I don&#039;t see him as saying &quot;I&#039;ll teach them values and morals, but if they turn out to not have any and make a mistake...&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I read him as saying, &quot;I&#039;ll teach them values and morals, but even people with values and morals make mistakes, and if they do...&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It can be read both ways, but just having watched a million of his speeches and read about him and so on, I do not in any way think he&#039;s saying that moral people are perfect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re reading it differently than me, Jenna. I don&#8217;t see him as saying &#8220;I&#8217;ll teach them values and morals, but if they turn out to not have any and make a mistake&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>I read him as saying, &#8220;I&#8217;ll teach them values and morals, but even people with values and morals make mistakes, and if they do&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>It can be read both ways, but just having watched a million of his speeches and read about him and so on, I do not in any way think he&#8217;s saying that moral people are perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenna Hatfield</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenna Hatfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 11:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1683</guid>
		<description>Mistake is an acceptable term. But people with values and morals ALSO make mistakes. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or am I just a skeezy girl who had no semblance of right or wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mistake is an acceptable term. But people with values and morals ALSO make mistakes. </p>
<p>Or am I just a skeezy girl who had no semblance of right or wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: rredhead</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1682</link>
		<dc:creator>rredhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1682</guid>
		<description>I agree with Jenna on the second half of the quote. A baby is not a punishment, nor should he or she be made to feel like one.&lt;br /&gt;
However, I don&#039;t have a problem with the first half of the sentence: &quot;I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
The &quot;mistake&quot; may simply be having unprotected sex with someone. It doesn&#039;t necessarily refer to having sex in general. &lt;br /&gt;
The blog that this quote comes from reads, &quot;The exchange appeared to be prompted by Obama&#039;s earlier comments that he does not favor abstinence-only education, but rather comprehensive sexual education that includes information on abstinence and birth control.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
I think that upholds the argument that sex isn&#039;t the problem, but lack of birth control or protection is the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Jenna on the second half of the quote. A baby is not a punishment, nor should he or she be made to feel like one.<br />
However, I don&#8217;t have a problem with the first half of the sentence: &#8220;I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake&#8221;<br />
The &#8220;mistake&#8221; may simply be having unprotected sex with someone. It doesn&#8217;t necessarily refer to having sex in general. <br />
The blog that this quote comes from reads, &#8220;The exchange appeared to be prompted by Obama&#8217;s earlier comments that he does not favor abstinence-only education, but rather comprehensive sexual education that includes information on abstinence and birth control.&#8221;<br />
I think that upholds the argument that sex isn&#8217;t the problem, but lack of birth control or protection is the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Opalwench</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1678</link>
		<dc:creator>Opalwench</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 04:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1678</guid>
		<description>Okay, I&#039;m going to preface this with the fact that I am an Obama supporter.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the things that you have to remember is that he was answering a &quot;pro-lifer&quot; who wanted him to &quot;stop these abortions.&quot; So definitely my first thought is that he&#039;s countering the anti-abortion front. He&#039;s laying out his pro-choice line. Which includes comprehensive education. Now, I do think his word choice was poor (and I&#039;m sure if someone calls him on it he will say that as well).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He goes on to say that he doesn&#039;t want them &quot;punished with an STD at 16&quot; either. Which kind of reinforces the whole punishment for sex loop, which isn&#039;t good. (Word choice, word choice is so important.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think what he was trying to say is that he didn&#039;t want his daughters to face burdens that they might not be able to carry (such as raising a child at that point, in some views) or an STD, because they had sex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for the morals and values, I don&#039;t think that it&#039;s him saying that his morals and values are better at all. Also I think he was speaking to a semi-conservative crowd, so he was tailoring his answer to them. It doesn&#039;t make it all hunky-dory, but I tend to try and look at the situation as well as the statement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It does make me a little queasy to hear the words &quot;make adoption a viable option&quot; but yet again I think some of it is situational. I hope. Because really, I like him in several ways, and the other front runner candidates make me feel nauseous on a regular basis.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Of course that&#039;s my spin on it, and it&#039;s certainly not the end all be all of truth in this. By the way, if I come across offensive, it&#039;s not my intention. I&#039;m not sure I was entirely clear, but I thought I&#039;d chime in with another view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, I&#8217;m going to preface this with the fact that I am an Obama supporter.</p>
<p>One of the things that you have to remember is that he was answering a &#8220;pro-lifer&#8221; who wanted him to &#8220;stop these abortions.&#8221; So definitely my first thought is that he&#8217;s countering the anti-abortion front. He&#8217;s laying out his pro-choice line. Which includes comprehensive education. Now, I do think his word choice was poor (and I&#8217;m sure if someone calls him on it he will say that as well).</p>
<p>He goes on to say that he doesn&#8217;t want them &#8220;punished with an STD at 16&#8243; either. Which kind of reinforces the whole punishment for sex loop, which isn&#8217;t good. (Word choice, word choice is so important.)</p>
<p>I think what he was trying to say is that he didn&#8217;t want his daughters to face burdens that they might not be able to carry (such as raising a child at that point, in some views) or an STD, because they had sex.</p>
<p>As for the morals and values, I don&#8217;t think that it&#8217;s him saying that his morals and values are better at all. Also I think he was speaking to a semi-conservative crowd, so he was tailoring his answer to them. It doesn&#8217;t make it all hunky-dory, but I tend to try and look at the situation as well as the statement.</p>
<p>It does make me a little queasy to hear the words &#8220;make adoption a viable option&#8221; but yet again I think some of it is situational. I hope. Because really, I like him in several ways, and the other front runner candidates make me feel nauseous on a regular basis.</p>
<p>Of course that&#8217;s my spin on it, and it&#8217;s certainly not the end all be all of truth in this. By the way, if I come across offensive, it&#8217;s not my intention. I&#8217;m not sure I was entirely clear, but I thought I&#8217;d chime in with another view.</p>
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		<title>By: Coley S.</title>
		<link>http://birthparents.adoptionblogs.com/weblogs/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge/comment-page-1#comment-1677</link>
		<dc:creator>Coley S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2008 17:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://birth-first.www.adoptionblogs.com/2008/04/01/punishment-another-politician-doesn-t-ge#comment-1677</guid>
		<description>Ugh! I hadn&#039;t seen/heard that statement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The whole promiscuity thing is bugging me lately. I just had an incident with the whole &quot;birthmoms are promiscuios&quot; sterotype and have a post about that coming up. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ugh! I hadn&#8217;t seen/heard that statement.</p>
<p>The whole promiscuity thing is bugging me lately. I just had an incident with the whole &#8220;birthmoms are promiscuios&#8221; sterotype and have a post about that coming up.</p>
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